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Any truth to the merging/bleeding of pigments over time theory


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#1 horseshoe

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 07:21 PM

Whenever I'm surfing the different hair loss forums and see SMP discussed, it usually comes down to someone arguing that over time, as your body breaks down the pigments, the dots will eventually merge or bleed together. Most people who argue this point will say that all tattoos eventually meet this fate, so they speculate SMP will do the same.  

 

Is there any truth to the theory? Will SMP eventually bleed together making for one solid grey shadow with no distinct individual dots? Or does SMP behave differentially than a traditional tattoo in this sense? If so, why does it behave differentially?

 

 

 

 



#2 HatingHats

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 12:11 AM

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Horseshoe, the pigments are held in the collagen micro-forest of the second layer of your skin (the dermal layer).  Image trying to hold some mayonnaise in a cross weaved salad bowl made out of thatching. At first, the salad bowl will hold a big lump of mayonnaise just fine. However, as time passes, the mayonnaise can leak out a bit from the bottom as Earth's natural gravitational field presses down on the mayonnaise (equal to 9.81 m/s^2) and because the mayonnaise degrades a little bit. (its viscosity changes as the UV radiation from the sun changes its chemical structure) The same is true of the pigment being held in a client's collagen micro-forest, and normally, it would leak out into surrounding tissue and bleed out, so to speak. However, the reason this does not happen is that your immune system constantly removes particles that float free from the collagen microforest. (and from there are removed to the lymph nodes) Therefore, with regard to SMP, there is almost no "bleeding". There is fading, where a more densely packed area over time degrades due to immune response or UV radiation, but there is not bleeding or smearing.

     Your next question is probably, "Then why do regular tattoos seem to bleed and merge after many years?"  The answer to that is that regular tattoo inks are exactly that, ...inks. (they are not monomeric pigments) They are made of the pigment molecules but are usually combined with binders, carriers or additives. When that tattoo ink is subjected to the UV radiation of the sun for many years and Earth's standard gravitational field, the various components' are separated or their covalent bonds are broken and they break down and "bleed out", but at separate rates, which show as a stain bleeding together, or as a smearing. All the while, the immune system is working to remove this degradation. In comparison, the HIS pigment is a monomeric structure that does not break down any further, which is why you do not see a bleeding or smearing. The only thing you see with HIS is fading.

      Then, your next question is likely to be, "Will the individual dots eventually fade away?"  The answer is yes. If given enough time, the dots will fade down until they are no longer distinct dots (at least from an observer's point of view). And, that is the exact reason why all clients, at some point in the future will need an occasional touch-up. It is so new sharp dots can be laid down which keep the appearance ultra-realistic. For some, this might be every four years, but for another, it might be once every eight years. (I would say the average is about once every five years)  I hope this helps.


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Family guy, Electrical Engineer, HIS SMPer and Dwemer Tonal Architect

SMP treatments finished on July 12th, 2013

Went from Norwood 4.5 to a realistic Norwood 1 - Pretty happy with my results!

 

Religions are based on faith, and Science takes nothing on faith and tests everything.  I prefer Science, It just works bitches!

 


#3 HatingHats

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 12:26 AM

As an addendum, here is a link to a research paper that models how tattoos in the average human body fade, smear and bleed:

 

http://phys.org/news...tattoo-age.html

 

If you are interested in the mathematical principles of diffusion and their associated differential equations, then that paper will be of interest. It also discusses the differential diffusion (fade) rates of tattoo components which is exactly what makes them appear to bleed or smear.


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Family guy, Electrical Engineer, HIS SMPer and Dwemer Tonal Architect

SMP treatments finished on July 12th, 2013

Went from Norwood 4.5 to a realistic Norwood 1 - Pretty happy with my results!

 

Religions are based on faith, and Science takes nothing on faith and tests everything.  I prefer Science, It just works bitches!

 


#4 horseshoe

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 03:07 AM

Thanks for clearing that up HatingHats. Your knowledge of biology and SMP is truly an asset to this community. 


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#5 HIS - Ed

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 09:13 AM

Simply the best.

 

Thanks Hating Hats.


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#6 horseshoe

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 08:38 PM

Does anyone know if hydrogen peroxide can change the color or effect on the pigments in any way? How long after receiving the treatment would it be safe to use hydrogen peroxide? Thanks. 



#7 HIS - Ed

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 10:09 AM

Hi Horseshoe.

 

I personally wouldn't use peroxide or any other harsh chemical on my scalp. I know it is a popular dye and used on long hair it can, with care, be kept away from the skin. I have never set foot inside a hairdresser but I know they use a scalp cap that they pull the hair through to treat it... thus protecting the thin sensitive skin on the scalp be keeping it separated from that ferocious potion.

 

I can't imagine how it could be applied by someone with the typically shaved hair worn with an SMP... at least not without causing damage. Not that it would affect your SMP directly, as per Hating Hats superb explanation above, it is applied to the epidermis (the outer layer of skin) when the SMP pigment is below that and out of reach in the dermal layer.

 

But it sounds like a terrible idea just the same.



#8 Lt.Col Kojak Slaphead III

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 05:06 PM

Hating hats knows too much for HIS not to employ him. We can't let that kind of knowledge go to competitors, or the North Koreans.


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#9 HIS - Ed

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 08:22 AM

HatingHats is amazing, remember that none of what he posts on here is actually his true area of expertise. It is a very fortunate community that has a polymath to call its own.

 

...not sure the North Koreans take the same approach to hair (or anything else come to that) as the rest of the world.



#10 HatingHats

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 06:42 PM

I appreciate the kind comments but there are many people out there with more lights on in the attic than me. I just happened to be a dude who was losing his hair and decided to apply my best tool, the scientific method, to understand more about the micropigmentation process before I decided if the treatment was right for me. Now that I am fairly familar with the biophysics and biochemistry of pigmentation, I am happy to help others who surely have the same questions I did, when I began down the road.


  • HIS - Ed likes this

Family guy, Electrical Engineer, HIS SMPer and Dwemer Tonal Architect

SMP treatments finished on July 12th, 2013

Went from Norwood 4.5 to a realistic Norwood 1 - Pretty happy with my results!

 

Religions are based on faith, and Science takes nothing on faith and tests everything.  I prefer Science, It just works bitches!

 


#11 HIS - Ed

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 10:56 AM

... Did I mention self-effacing in his list of qualities?



#12 dasher

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 06:51 PM

i have a question is there such a thing as over moisturizing ? i use nivea aftersun mostly, as it is what was recommended in the leaflet i got from the clinic, my work involves me wearing a hard hat for sometimes twelve hours a day at work, so lots of sweating, and i wondered would it be a good idea to apply moisturizer maybe half way through my shift, i have and will observe the guidelines about a month before heavy sweating, but i regularly go to the gym and sweat alot there too, will there be any negative fading effects by either lots of moisturizing, and /or lots of post one month sweating? cheers mate. Dasher.

#13 HatingHats

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 06:27 PM

     I am not a dermatologist Dasher, but I would say the guiding principle with moisturizing is to use good common sense. Like most substances, moisturizers contain several different compounds. If you use your typical moisturizer one to three times per day, I doubt you will have any concerns. But if someone suffered from an OCD type condition where they were moisturizing thirty or more times per day, then sure, it is quite possible that some of the compounds could act as irritants. As to your working conditions, I would wait until the end of the day or shift to apply moisturizer. The reason is that some oil based moisturizers can act as a barrier preventing normal sweating and lead to a build up of sebum, bacteria and possibly irritation. Since you are wearing a hard hat anyway, no one is going to be looking much at your scalp. And then, when the shift is over, you can moisturize your scalp normally.

      And as to sweating, no, ...it will not affect your SMP if you follow the aftercare guidelines. The reason is that sebum and sweat are deposited on top of the epidermis while the pigment molecules are trapped below in the dermis and will not be affected.


Family guy, Electrical Engineer, HIS SMPer and Dwemer Tonal Architect

SMP treatments finished on July 12th, 2013

Went from Norwood 4.5 to a realistic Norwood 1 - Pretty happy with my results!

 

Religions are based on faith, and Science takes nothing on faith and tests everything.  I prefer Science, It just works bitches!

 


#14 dasher

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 10:19 PM

Thanks mate. Appreciate you taking the time to answer. Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
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