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gray shadow

saying no for now

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Appreciate the forum.....Thanks for the input and answering questions......I got quoted at 4000 dollars......Will pass for now till you find a way to get guaranteed tiny dots.......With a wet shave the dots I would be given would be bigger then fresh wet shaved dots.....Although most people wouldn't notice it would be detectable if one looked hard enough......i hope His works with HatingHats to get this resolved.......He knows how to fix this but has experienced standoffish type tactics from His......Once it's figured out and I can get TINY dots I will get the procedure. .....I will check back to see if you fix this.....Thanks......

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I think you've made a good decision with it is you're trying to achieve. 

 

To be honest i wanted exactly what you seem to want (a shaven look...no obvious hairline....just a shadow to make it seem as if something is actually there). I don't think it's possible to be honest and although i can somewhat get away with it being that i have a darkish skin complexion, i don't think it will work for you the way you want it.

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Appreciate the forum.....Thanks for the input and answering questions......I got quoted at 4000 dollars......Will pass for now till you find a way to get guaranteed tiny dots.......With a wet shave the dots I would be given would be bigger then fresh wet shaved dots.....Although most people wouldn't notice it would be detectable if one looked hard enough......i hope His works with HatingHats to get this resolved.......He knows how to fix this but has experienced standoffish type tactics from His......Once it's figured out and I can get TINY dots I will get the procedure. .....I will check back to see if you fix this.....Thanks......

 

I understand your comments, but we have treated well over 10,000 clients now. I believe you're over-analysing and over-thinking this. In my lifetime I have never had anyone examine my head as closely as you obviously fear they will. This treatment is 99% undetectable. If the extra 1% is a real issue for you, then SMP is probably not a solution you'd ultimately be happy with.

 

Conversations between HIS and HatingHats are private, so I'm not able to discuss them here.

 

Completely respect your decision. Its your life, your head and your choice :)

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I think you guys are king of missing his point to be honest.

 

There are the select few out there that actually don't mind being bald but would prefer that nice bit of shadow on their head just so it's evenly matched all over. The sole purpose isn't to make it seem as if you have hair but to make things 'equal up' if you will. He's made it clear that he wants to wet shave and simply wants everything to look the same which will be extremely difficult. 

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I had hoped to conclude that Fox Hunting Club Membership I was promised upon reaching VIP status, but other than that, HIS is doing most things correct by my book.  As I have said before, even if HIS gave you a full series of treatments and each dot was only 50 Um across in diameter, the astute observer would only see this as a field of gray.  In effect, this would be the painted head look that overall would not be realistic.

     I do believe treatments by HIS can be improved upon, but right now, I think their methodology makes 98% or more of clients happy 98% or more of the time. And, in any treatment dealing with the general paying public, that is pretty damn high.  The ultimate and more important yardstick with regards to HIS' business model will be how much they charge for touch-ups as the years pass.  With more and more competitors entering the field every year, eventually someone else will do it as well as HIS, and so to maintain client base, the critical factors will treatment quality and touch-up pricing.  But everyone who reads here regularly already knows I have mentioned these topics before (including Ian, Ranbir and Damien).

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The only way to tell if these dots are small enough for you is to get a patch test. Until then looking at photos, other peoples heads, opinions etc will not make you think other wise and you'll still be left with the opinion of the dots are too big. What's a patch test? £80? Just do it, then you will no for sure.

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It is evidently a busy morning here at the forums, LOL.  As to whether it is possible to construct a SMP practitioner robot that completes a treatment without human practitioner help, I have already written posts on this before.  If you have ever seen (let's just take one company for example) Honda micro-robots at work, then you know the answer is yes.  It is possible but with important considerations, which are many.  A few among them might be, Do Ian and Ranbir have the roughly $250,000 to invest in one for one of their showplace clinics?  If you are a Norwood VI and received 13,500 dots that would normally take four hours to complete in twelve minutes, would the client be able to bear the pain and would it induce shock.  And on, and on.  Yes, a robotic SMP pracitioner is possible but the devil is in the details.

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Why even start this topic? If your not going to get it done why even waste the time to say it's not worth It. ..move on

 

It might not be positive feedback, but its still constructive at least. The poster has looked at the opportunity available, and decided that its not for him right now. Although many (including myself) might not agree with his analysis, we have to respect his decision either way.

 

Its sparked a debate, which is no bad thing :)

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Stay calm, ive seen treatment on 3 guys who wet shave...including Ian the founder. Thats what its meant for. He should see it in person.

To be honest i haven't. The closest i've seen to a 'wet shave' look is that Daniel Johnson guy and even that isn't really a 'wet shaved look'.

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I'm just gonna come out and say this and everyone that doesn't like it... oh well. It is not undetectable. I have seen it in the flesh. The reason I can see it though is because my vision is way above average. Granted, I have to be about 10 inches away to really see it, but I can see it. The dots are too big. I can see the difference in size. For Hating Hats to say it will look like a field of grey with 50um dots is only half true. From a distance, yes. But so does a shaved head with no balding. If i can see individual follicles, why could I not see a dot of the same size? Why can I distinguish the follicles from dots? Now from 2 feet away, yes, it's undetectable. You just gotta have really good vision to see the differences. I think the current dot size was not meant to blend with a wet shave. Maybe 1-2 days growth or if you do a proper fade and completely cover whats on top. That's the only way this 'works' in my opinion. 

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Totally disagree with the above comment. This treatment is most definitely designed to be used for wet shaving and works incredibly well. I started out wanting to grow my hair a bit as I'm a nw3/4. I can sort of get away with it but it's so much better wet shaved. I'm not sure what examples you've seen though to be fair.

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I'm just gonna come out and say this and everyone that doesn't like it... oh well. It is not undetectable. I have seen it in the flesh. The reason I can see it though is because my vision is way above average. Granted, I have to be about 10 inches away to really see it, but I can see it. The dots are too big. I can see the difference in size. For Hating Hats to say it will look like a field of grey with 50um dots is only half true. From a distance, yes. But so does a shaved head with no balding. If i can see individual follicles, why could I not see a dot of the same size? Why can I distinguish the follicles from dots? Now from 2 feet away, yes, it's undetectable. You just gotta have really good vision to see the differences. I think the current dot size was not meant to blend with a wet shave. Maybe 1-2 days growth or if you do a proper fade and completely cover whats on top. That's the only way this 'works' in my opinion. 

 

Whos treatment have you seen? Spanish86?

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A few important things to note about what you just mentioned NoHerr.  Real hair follicles, where the shaft of the hair is cut down by say a razor blade, still project away from the epidermis a little bit.  Because of this, they will cast a very small shadow unless the person is in a room of pitch blackness.  (just as even a very short sun dial casts a shadow on the ground)  This makes the apparent diameter of the follicle larger than the actual diameter of the cut hair shaft (which, for example, in an average caucasian hair is about 77 Um (micrometers)) because now, you must take into account the shadow as well.  And throughout the day, of course the hair is growing.  From 8 AM to 8 PM, a typical scalp hair grows about 0.278 mm (which is 278 micrometers) which as the day progresses becomes highly visible to those whose vision is poorer than 20/20. And the shadow that this growing hair casts, also increases as the day does. With the main point being that the apparent size of a real hair follicle is much larger than the actual diameter of the cut hair shaft.  With SMP, there is nothing to cast a shadow and nothing to grow out, and therefore, nothing that makes the apparent size of the SMP dot bigger.  Hence, a SMP dot must be larger than about 80 Um (micrometers) in order to give a good approximation of realism.

     Also, remember that everyone has different elasticity and immune systems with regards to the scalp.  In some clients, the final dots really are about 150 Um across but due to diffusion of pigment in the collagen micro-forest of the dermal layer of their skin, their dots actually expand a little bit. Does that mean the treatment, suddenly becomes fakey?  No, but it might mean that instead of needing to be inches away for a long period to detect it, one foot (as you rightly mention) might suffice.  That said, I myself (and I am not saying this because of HIS) would rather have an SMP treatment than remain a Norwood IV.

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I am not saying it does not look good. It is definitely an improvement for most. I am saying that its possible to detect. You do have to be right up in someone's personal space to see it. There are times when this could happen in life. That pic above my first comment is not in the flesh so its hard to properly assess. I think the dots appear about the same size as hair, but there are some darker dots that do not match from what appears to be difference in color, not size. Some people have thicker hair, some people have thinner hair. This will play a role in how detectable it is. 

Hating hats, the bottom line is, the dots are bigger than follicles and can be seen from the right distance. With all that being said, I still think this is the best option for many people. I am still considering getting this done, but I will do it on my own time. Maybe I'll see a treatment that will sway me off the fence. That's why i'm still here. I also think that if the entire top of the head is covered and faded properly, it removes the ability for most people to detect it. 

All in all i have seen 5 people with it done. The difference with me is that I know it is there and i am looking for it. Most people probably would not think to examine that closely. Only a bald guy would care that much about another person's hair.

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